Webtalk: Realistic Routes to Substrate-Independent Minds by Wikipedia:Randal A. Koene, carboncopies project/teleXLR8 the 17th of July 2010

Live notes

Recordings, notes timestamps were in CET, presentation slides should become available.

  • 19h00 ...irony
    • interested in infrastructure/substrate reliability and security yet having technical problem joining the conference
      • note for Programming#SoftwareStack that it was a stack trace that allowed to pinpoint and solved the VM problem in (nearly) due time
  • 19h38 (finally joined)
  • 19h45 on brain limitation and constraints
    • short and long term-memory
  • 19h50 environment risks
    • pace of evolution
    • repair and defense mechanism
  • 19h55 whole brain
    • first order, second order quantification
  • 20h00 minimum data that retains information theoric mind
    • ~minimally sufficient neural correlate?
  • 20h04 function and structure
    • target substrate
  • 20h10 transitions
    • how to get there
    • technology becoming part of GPS
    • lifelog, is it sufficient?
    • in-vivo through micro-electrode arrays (MEA)
      • like BrainGate
  • 20h20 beyond the cutting edge
    • mention of AGI
  • 20h23 regional significance limit
    • operational constraints
  • 20h27 summary
    • experiment, demonstration, analysis
    • Proof-of-concept
    • satisfy ASIM objectives
  • 20h32 Q&A
    • organization and upcoming talk (and its potential broadcast)
    • comment on Kurzweil computational emulation requirements
    • realistic time line?
      • depends on the resources injected
    • typing points?
      • proof-of-concept (even at a small scale)
        • Ted Berger (but currently not up to date)
    • what is ASIM?
      • KB+process+support
      • needs-based network
    • Penrose and QM (later on question on microtubules/Penrose–Hameroff ‘Orch OR’)
    • organic vs inorganic substrate
      • both can carry computation
        • each can be better based on the environment targeted
    • several remarks on vocabulary used
      • problems of "bad PR" thus recommending terms like "whole brain emulation"
    • comments on Yale Study Shows Electrical Fields Influence Brain Activity July 14, 2010
    • optogenetics and consciousness
      • in particular Ed Boyden work consciousness


Personal motivation for attending

  1. understanding the trend better
    1. discovering how I can leverage it
    2. how do my projects fit in
  2. sharing knowledge based on my specific background that might not have been integrated so far
    1. live migration
      1. network topology and latency problems/opportunities
    2. energy requirements and against "substrate idealism"
  3. my mind has been uploaded, now what? (the case for "infrastructure as code" paradigm)
    1. can that datacenter crash?
      1. do I rely on the datacenter administration? energy supply?
      2. putting aside the physics and hardware problems, how does the law protect me? how does software license protect me?
        1. can the software locked-in problem be extended to this topic? what would be the consequences?
    2. can I re-locate myself?
      1. at what risk? at what cost? at what speed?
    3. how do I leverage that new substrate?
      1. what are the limits that I didn't have before?
      2. security? DDoS? botnet? (security is also "Substrate-Independent")
        1. problem of ransom?
      3. if those questions are ignored as "technical details" what are the chances of the first organisms to actually survive?
        1. is the learning curve worth early failure?
          1. even if it is yourself?


Live migration


Previous conferences

Groups and activities



See also

To do

  • live wikying
    • Path:/pub/Events/TeleXLR8-01-ASIM17072010.txt (note that discussions were still going on when I left, thus the log is not complete)
      • "Save Transcript..." -> ~/discussion-text.txt
    • face-to-face
      • high-frequency "ack" responses lacking in other interaction means
  • discussions with Paola (13/07/2010 and 14/07/2010) on corticogenesis, early spontaneous brain activity, correlation embedded as a physical mechanism, body discovery, ...
  • consider doing a short article on security
    • Your whole emulated mind (or uploaded mind) will be hijacked and ransomed, here is why and how
      • computer security basis
      • law basis
      • economical basis
        • history of slavery?
      • overall basis
      • sources for potential solutions
        • individual immune system
        • group-based immune system (vaccine)
        • computer security
          • RAM to RAM encrypted network transfer
    • weak arguments
      • nobody cares about my "instance"
        • botnets scan target hosts automatically 24/7 for exploits
      • my "instance" would be useless
        • if it's precious to anybody (even if not yourself but your entourage) then it has value thus can be worth capturing
      • my "instance" will be one in haystack of the Internet, it will be mathematically impossible to find in a realistic time
        • just like current P2P swarm, one list (even in a distributed hash-table form) is enough to very efficiently parse an entire network
          • it is very unlikely that nobody (including the participant) will make a list of the running "instance", at the early stage that number will probably be very low thus easier to analyze
    • see also
    • workshop proposed (early August 2010) to Marc for the Paris III Censier-Sorbonne conference
      • mindset of "X (mind uploading) is possible, X meets criteria A, B or C (cf above), security is thus an issue" where "X is possible" applies even for those who do not think so
        • else those person must refrain from participating
          • gedankenexperiment, closure
  • consider neuronal growth cones for biotic/abiotic interface and proper neuronal designed circuity
  • check http://www.quora.com/Will-human-consciousness-ever-be-transferrable-to-a-computer