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20 october 2008
discussed after drawing on the door the E-f()-I-R pyramid

13:28 -!- Irssi: Starting query in bitlbee with Paola
13:29 <Utopiah> life = blueprint of a virus
13:29 <Utopiah> with additional layers of complexity
13:30 <Utopiah> I formalized that a bit
13:30 <Paola> sim
13:30 <Utopiah> [blueprint of a virus] = [B]
13:30 <Paola> from the most simple to the most evolved (we hope so but its not always like so :P)
13:31 <Utopiah> it's actually a population of individual (like uniq entitity, nothing moral or philosophical here) that
                (who?) are *functionnaly* identical
13:31 <Paola> (who?)
13:31 <Paola> ?
13:32 <Utopiah> well they are not individual thus the terms "who/him/her" could be inappropriate instead of it
13:33 <Utopiah> so you have the layer [B] constituted of individual who share at least they functional role : behave
                like a virus
13:33 <Paola> ok just say they
13:33 <Paola> sim
13:34 <Utopiah> so this set can be constitued of any individual whatever the substrate or anything else as long as they
                have the ability to reproduce themselves
13:34 <Utopiah> thus generating individuals that can also reproduce themselves
13:34 <Paola> sim
13:34 <Utopiah> like a closed set
13:34 <Utopiah> ok
13:34 <Utopiah> so now you have another layer
13:35 <Utopiah> [optimization] = [O] where individuals are functionnaly identical regarding their ability to always tend
                to optimize
13:35 <Utopiah> they basically are optimization functions
13:36 <Utopiah> trying to limit waste and maximize output with a minimal amount of input
13:36 <Utopiah> am I making myself clear?
13:36 <Paola> ok
13:36 <Paola> :)
13:37 <Paola> yes, but where is positioned the layer [O] ?
13:37 <Utopiah> so now you can imagine individuals from the [B] set "using" individuals from the [O] set
13:38 <Utopiah> example : a virus that use optimization functions to reproduce itself as fast as possible
13:38 <Paola> you assume to simplify that they all have the same improvement capacity?
13:38 -!- you can't connect all b from [B}
13:38 <Utopiah> no
13:39 <Utopiah> they have very different strategy
13:39 <Utopiah> very different substrat
13:39 <Utopiah> very different result
13:39 <Utopiah> but each individual on a layer/set/[] have the SAME functional ability
13:39 <Paola> ok now is better
13:39 <Utopiah> that's why I use the term population of individuals
13:39 <Paola> ok
13:40 <Utopiah> swarms of functionaly individuals
13:40 <Utopiah> so basically humans are a specific connection between [B] and [O]
13:41 <Utopiah> because... when I look in the street
13:41 <Utopiah> I see optimization functions...
13:41 <Utopiah> with names, yes, but still optimization functions
13:41 <Paola> and plants and animals?
13:41 <Utopiah> same
13:41 <Paola> ok
13:41 <Utopiah> we are a subset of [B]x[O]
13:42 <Utopiah> (all individuals of layers can't connect to all, there are compatibility  requirements)
13:42 <Paola> which optimization function are you seen right now on the street?
13:42 <Utopiah> I make a little drawing of this but on my door so I can't show you :-#
13:42 <Paola> i'll see it
13:42 <Utopiah> right now in the street I see :
13:43 <Utopiah> an old lady walking according to a minimal energy required path
13:43 <Utopiah> I see a young boy bragging thus a social optimization
13:43 <Utopiah> etc
13:43 <Utopiah> all this encompassing a resources optimization for survival
13:43 -!- ok now you have layer [I]
13:44 <Paola> :D minimal energy required path means she is not jumping from roof to roof to go to the bakery for
              instance?
13:44 <Utopiah> while the young boy does it just to show off
13:44 <Utopiah> they are different tactics but in the end the same strategy : optimization of resources
13:45 <Utopiah> different o of [O] by identical b of [B]
13:45 <Utopiah> (probably sharing a lot of o thanks to their common culture)
13:45 <Paola> the the boy falls and kill himself while the old lady had never done it when was young cause she was a
              girls then she is alive now
13:46 <Utopiah> but for both of them it makes sense because...
13:46 <Utopiah> they are interacting on different layer [I]
13:46 <Paola> you know yesterday i was telling a friend something similar
13:46 <Paola> she was whining cause her boyfriend didnt call her
13:47 <Paola> and then she was bothering me
13:47 <Paola> so i told her what if YOU dont call him?
13:47 -!- [I] is the interface to environment
13:47 <Paola> does he start whining with his friends because of it? does he start thinking you dont love him anymore??
13:47 <Paola> no
13:47 <Paola> obviously not
13:48 <Paola> he just thinks oh she forgot, or easier oh she didnt call, or even more easy he doesnt think at all
13:48 <Paola> but never questioning feelings or stuff
13:48 <Paola> then he is relaxed and enjoys his day anyway
13:49 <Paola> instead you (= a random girl) keep on thinking trillions of stupid possibilities instead of accepting the
              easiest one
13:49 <Paola> and then you suffer
13:49 <Paola> so i told her her strategy was not really working :)
13:50 <Paola> or do like him and be happier
13:50 <Utopiah> logic and reason is not the best leverage tool for emotional women...
13:50 <Utopiah> (trust my painful experience)
13:51 <Paola> it took me a while to understand this thing myself... and she is still wondering...
13:51 <Paola> but i hope i seeded something
13:51 <Paola> at least she stopped complaining
13:55 <Utopiah> layer I
13:57 <Utopiah> layer I
13:57 -!- Paola is away: Busy
13:57 <Paola> what a strange thing
13:58 <Utopiah> interface layer = [I]
13:58 <Utopiah> those are individuals that share the functional ability to connect to available resources
13:58 <Utopiah> from the environment
13:59 <Paola> such as?
14:00 <Utopiah> being able to use the road network, the electricity network, ...
14:02 <Paola> sim
14:04 <Utopiah> so now you have [B] [O] [I] and an environment with resources
14:04 <Utopiah> you can build any lifeform you want.
14:06 <Paola> theoretically, yes
14:06 <Paola> and related to my day :)?
14:07 <Paola> (me:  plus it seems it will be a beautiful day so i'll try to be as much productive as i can
14:07 <Paola>  Fabien:  well, I have a theory on that)
14:07 <Utopiah> you are a b you can't chose
14:07 <Utopiah> it's a fixed parameter
14:07 <Utopiah> and some o and i too
14:07 <Utopiah> but some o like how will you optimize your day
14:07 <Utopiah> can still be decided
14:08 <Utopiah> I think having a good model
14:08 <Utopiah> can help you to pick the good o
14:08 <Utopiah> and thus be as productive as you can
14:08 <Utopiah> thus... enjoying your beautiful day productively
14:08 <Paola> :)
14:09 <Paola> olk let me try then: i am running now to the green house to do my work cause is sunny and there is no one
              there to bother
14:10 <Paola> then when everybody is out for lunch i use our room for grad students to work in peace without
              interuptions preparing the data for the statistical analysis
14:11 <Paola> then i hunt the professor right after he comes back from lunch cause he is happier and feeded
14:11 <Paola> so will help me more
14:11 <Paola> and then i faint cause i didnt eat :(
14:11 <Paola> have to improve that part
14:12 <Paola> ok
14:12 <Paola> cool
14:13 <Utopiah> eating is an I on CO based nutrition resources
14:13 <Paola> :D
14:13 <Utopiah> your local O was good but overall was bad
14:13 <Paola> why?
14:13 <Paola> i will buy something to eat on my way to the uni
14:14 <Paola> so i dont have to go to the cantine
14:14 <Utopiah> it was a local optimum to win 5min but you waste 10min of more by being hungry and thinking about it
14:14 <Paola> ha! yes! but now i improved it!
14:15 <Paola> nonono i will bring my urgently to be eaten abacaxi!
14:15 <Paola>  ok! i go now and i'll tell you later
14:15 <Paola> (K)
14:15 <Utopiah> see you
14:16 <Paola> :)
14:16 -!- Paola [yavanna_s@hotmail.com] has quit [Leaving...]
Page last modified on March 14, 2009, at 03:47 PM